Carlos Bordeu: «being a dad is a wonderful adventure»
I’ve known Carlos Bordeu, one of the pioneers of the video game industry in Chile, for over fifteen years now. Although we were both Civil Engineering classmates at PUC, truth be told, we probably would’ve never crossed paths if it weren’t for a mutual friend who decided to introduce me to “the twins who are crazy about making video games, just like you,” meaning Carlos and his brother Andrés.
Carlos is talented, highly professional, down-to-earth, and sometimes brutally honest. He’s one of those people I consider a friend. Many years ago, we worked on two independent projects alongside his brothers Andrés and Edmundo, and later, we shared the experience of being the first to work professionally in video games in Chile, when Wanako Games was founded in 2003.
Furthermore, he became a father two years ago, so he has also experienced the challenges of balancing fatherhood and this demanding profession. For all these reasons, there is no better candidate than Carlos Bordeu to be the first interviewee for Papa Game Dev.
The full audio of the interview (in Spanish) is also available:
The Beginnings of Carlos Bordeu’s Career
Papa Game Dev: Hello Carlos. Thank you so much for agreeing to this interview with Papa Game Dev. I would like to start by talking about your career. ACE Team (official site) is, of course, one of the most important companies in the gaming industry in Chile and Latin America. What is your current role in the company?
Carlos Bordeu: Hi Juan Pablo. Thanks for the interview. My two brothers and I co-founded the company; in fact, ACE is an acronym for “Andrés Carlos Edmundo.” In the company, I’m primarily involved in game design, project management at the production level, and a lot of art and animation work; I even dabble in sound design. In smaller companies like ours, we tend to wear many hats.
Papa Game Dev: When did you start making video games? Tell me about the early days of Carlos Bordeu’s career.
Carlos Bordeu: Whenever I have to give a talk or discuss this, I always say it’s like going through my entire life story, because I started at a very young age. Ever since I was a kid, I was captivated by the games we saw on the Mac Plus; that computer had a tiny 320 x 200 black and white screen.
What we used to do was sketch out video games that we thought we’d program or were interested in making designs for. Many of those games remained on paper and were never programmed because, truth be told, none of us three brothers were really into programming; we were more interested in the art side of things.
When we did start making things work, it was by modifying existing games. We’d take games that were already out, try to understand how they worked using official editors or directly hacking them. We altered certain aspects of the game and made our versions of those video games. I think I was less than 10 years old at that time.
Papa Game Dev: And what about family support in pursuing video games? Did you encounter the typical “do something serious with your life” attitude?
Carlos Bordeu: Haha, yes, quite a bit. Truthfully, I come from a family with a more traditional academic background, and the whole idea of video games was never really seen in a good light, both in terms of risk and what it meant to dive into something completely unprecedented, something that wasn’t seen as a traditional career.
My parents both come from traditional professional backgrounds, they got very good scores to get into university, took the usual path. And here were their three sons saying, “we want to commit ourselves to something that could be a disaster,” which was very alien for our family. So, yes, initially they didn’t like it, and it took a lot of convincing. Even to this day, they still tell me, “why don’t you get a college degree?” because I dropped out of university before completing my higher education to dedicate myself to video games.
Papa Game Dev: The story goes, and I know this firsthand, that around the year 2000, your brothers and you decided to stay in Chile to develop video games instead of migrating abroad, which seemed like the only viable professional option at the time. Do you feel it was a good decision?
Carlos Bordeu: You know firsthand because we were there together. At that time, with you, Juan Pablo, we started working on The Dark Conjunction (Youtube video), and also on Zenozoik, which was one of our first commercially-intended games before Zeno Clash (official site).
Yes, we thought there was no future in making video games in Chile, but eventually, we decided maybe we could start something here and turn it into a commercial possibility, and I have no regrets whatsoever. Although who knows what it would have been like to embark on that journey in another country, the chance to create the things we always dreamed of doing is something I believe we never could have accessed had we gone elsewhere. The learning experience could have been very interesting from being somewhere else, but honestly, I don’t feel we’ve been limited in our capacity as professionals in the field, to learn how to be very competent and develop world-class quality video games.
Papa Game Dev: I also believe it was a good decision. ACE Team wouldn’t have been the same if you had gone.
Fatherhood, A Marvelous Experience
Papa Game Dev: Now, let’s talk a little bit about fatherhood. Daniel, your firstborn, turned two not so long ago. How would you summarize what being a dad has meant to you?
Carlos Bordeu: Honestly, I’m a delightfully proud and happy dad. For me, being a dad has been like a wonderful adventure, and every time I see my boy, I get very emotional and enjoy my time with him. Many people say that kids are so complicated and difficult, and sure, they cry, they don’t let you sleep much, and when they get sick, you worry and all that, but I find it a marvelous gift for my life and our family. I see him as a “mini-me,” and the truth is, I try to think about his future and when I think about the topic of video games, to some extent, I think it’s risky that the dad is involved in a profession that sounds so fun for kids.
Papa Game Dev: Exactly about that, I wanted to ask you later, but I’d like to ask you first if, now that it’s been two years plus the time before when you knew you were going to be a dad, do you feel that fatherhood has influenced your latest released project or the one you are currently working on? For instance, in your creative sensitivity, since you’re a designer at ACE Team, do you feel that this has changed your perspective or altered something?
Carlos Bordeu: I would say that maybe I’m more sensitive to certain issues and that can change my perception when it comes to designing things or as a creator. I’m not the type to say that now I have a child, I want to make things that are for my kid. Like in the case of Eddie Murphy who, since he became a dad, started doing movies just for kids and somehow morphed into another person. I still feel a strong affinity for designing and developing video games aimed more at adults.
But definitely, I cannot deny that there is an impact from the point of view of how I see the world and perhaps, not thinking directly of video games, when looking at everyday life. When I watch movies or see news, there are things that previously made an impact on me and that now hit me differently or much stronger now that I’m a dad.
Papa Game Dev: I understand, perfectly natural, after all. You touched on a topic just now: games for kids versus games for adults. Especially now that you’re a father, what do you think about many parents who are indifferent about what their children play and buy them just any game without looking at age restrictions? Do you feel those restrictions are valid, or is it a matter of each parent and their child?
Carlos Bordeu: I think the industry’s restrictions and what is recommended or not is fine. I’m not at all against setting certain barriers for minors to acquire video games that aren’t for them. In fact, sometimes I feel there is too much leniency when it comes to children’s accessibility to violence in video games.
Being so close to the industry, I think I’m going to be very aware of what my son is playing. He’s still very small, so he’s not capable of playing games that could be cause for worry. But in a few more years, he will be at an age where, if I do not filter what he’s playing, I think he could end up playing games that aren’t appropriate for him.
To be honest, I’m a bit concerned about it because my son will have a dad who’s a gamer and who develops video games, and maybe many of his friends will have access to video games that I wouldn’t want him to play. There’s the issue of whether I should censor it, but if his friends are also exposed to these popular games and I, on top of that, am the dad who works in this industry, it’s going to be something that I’m not exactly sure how I will tackle yet. One possibility is to be very much by his side when he plays and giving him the relevant explanations, like “look, you have to understand this is fantasy”, or just outright say “Look, even if some of your friends are playing this, it’s not appropriate and they shouldn’t be allowed”.
Papa Game Dev: Yeah, it’s tough, I tell you from personal experience. You also mentioned another topic I wanted to ask you about: I know because I’ve known you for a long time that you have always been a very active gamer. Since you became a dad, do you still have time to play?
Carlos Bordeu: Less. Frankly, quite a bit less, I’ve stopped playing a lot at home. But one reason I play less is that I use my free time to work on personal projects and that takes up all the time I could spend playing and doing things around the house. I recently posted a video of a kind of experimental prototype of a game I’ve been working on.
I’m lucky to have a very understanding wife who is attentive to my interests, allowing me to do these things at home. Since my son is still young and goes to sleep relatively early, I have my hours to myself at night when I can dedicate to doing things I want. I prefer to be doing something productive rather than playing; not that I consider playing non-productive, in fact, being a game designer, I occasionally need to be trying out new games. But yes, the truth is I don’t have the same amount of time as I had before.
Technology, Video Games, and Children
Papa Game Dev: Tell me. How do you see Daniel interacting with technology? Does he take the controller from you if you’re doing something or does he take your cellphone? How do you see a two-year-old child, your two-year-old child, interacting with technology?
Carlos Bordeu: The truth is that it’s surprising. Kids are very quick and can handle devices very naturally. Dani, as I call him, tries to ask for my cellphone all the time because he wants to watch videos of himself. He asks to watch Pingu or other cartoons and is always trying to touch everything, take everything. He already drags and moves around on the iPad and touch devices really well, which I’ll eventually reverse by giving him an Xbox 360 controller and telling him “no, these are children’s games, you have to play games for really true men!”, haha, to see if he eventually plays some of the games that dad makes. But well, that’s for much later. I’ve already tried to pass him the WiiU controller to play something, but he’s still very little, he watches more than he understands.
Papa Game Dev: And well, sometimes you play something and think “Oh, how nice it would be to play this with my son in the future.” You just mentioned ‘the games that dad makes,’ but is there any game like Mario Kart or any of your other favorites that you’d like to enjoy with him?
Carlos Bordeu: I’d happily play the classic platformers, like the new Super Mario games that can be played by several people, are easy, and aren’t frustrating. Plus, they have that thing where you can grab the other player and throw them into a hole to kill them and basically troll them, haha. So I think it can create pretty funny situations, laughing and playing with him. I’d love to do it, but he’s still too little, he can’t play Super Mario yet.
Papa Game Dev: The question that was left hanging earlier. You said you found it risky, but it’s very natural and likely that at least your son will be curious about becoming a game developer too. Would you like him to be one, are you indifferent, or would you definitely prefer he not be one?
Carlos Bordeu: Look, I believe you’ll remember that I was one of the first people to comment on the first article when you opened the blog, and I remember you laughed a lot at the comment. What I was saying is that when Daniel gets a bit older and starts to understand that dad is working and has a profession, I was going to buy a doctor’s coat and wear it every time I left the house so he would think I’m a doctor, to keep him unaware of video games.
Now, I say it as a joke, but that’s because I feel that video games have become something very difficult these days, it’s very competitive. If it were just difficult, maybe I wouldn’t see it so negatively, but the thing is, I find that those of us who started making games, we had to work our butts off to break into this thing. In our time nothing existed, you had to gamble thousands of aspects of your life if you really wanted to dedicate yourself to video games. There were no tutorials, you couldn’t just pick up Unity and drag a couple of assets into the engine or to UDK and have the thing working in fifteen minutes. It was hours upon hours upon hours upon hours of being buried in it.
I think the problem is that today it seems easy to start doing things and that’s a double-edged sword because being able to make such simple stuff does not quickly turn you into a professional. On the other hand, with the level of competition that exists today in the industry, only the best should be the ones who survive and I don’t think it’s right to push a child towards something where they’re going to be, quote-unquote, “nepotistic.”
If he’s really passionate about it, wants to be the number one and is willing to dedicate all his time, I won’t say no. But I feel that there must be a commitment that goes beyond saying “Wow, this looks fun, why would I choose a boring career in my life if I can dedicate myself to video games which is the most fun thing in the world?” and take the easy way out. This industry actually doesn’t reward people who want to take it easy, rather it’s a super tough industry and even very talented people can do poorly. So it’s better that it’s a very very very strong thing, that the commitment be very very high, and the vocation be very very high, or I’d rather he do something else.
Advice for the Future
Papa Game Dev: As you mention how attractive the industry seems, as you and I and many others have given talks and participated in events, you realize that there are a lot of young people who come up to you and say they have, according to them, the idea that will change the world of video games. They want to, they dream of getting into the industry and, on top of that, particularly you and your brothers, they see you as heroes for the successes ACE Team has had worldwide.
What do you feel is the step they should take? What’s missing for them to move from that dream to reality? And related to this, do you think that the very precarious but budding formal education in video games that’s starting to emerge here in Chile, and that in other places is already much more advanced, is of any use?
Carlos Bordeu: I believe that the young people who are trying to get started, who want to get into video games and have all these dreams of being some sort of Hideo Kojima, need to come down a bit from their high, like from the grand dream, and land a bit more with the reality of the industry and set more realistic goals for themselves. If you can’t get excited about a realistic goal regarding the industry and if the only thing that excites you is to be Hideo Kojima, if anything less than that you consider not valuable, then you’re on the wrong path. I think in that I draw a parallel with someone who wants to be a rock star, who wants to be a musician to appear there in a concert and be famous.
You have to like making video games to the point where a small personal project that you can add a quota of something you’re passionate about, something that excites you and makes it distinctive, is something that calls you enough to carry out that project and do it well.
Regarding formal careers, I believe they will always be a help to maybe get organized, learn some things, but I believe that unlike many other careers, video games require a lot of self-teaching. I learned that way, so it’s hard for me to think that someone can learn with classes in a classroom and a teacher dictating to you, I don’t think that can work. It might, but it’s not my experience. I think that to get ahead, especially with how competitive the industry is, you need that passion, that heart that you want to put in, that goes beyond simply knowing the material, because you’re going to have to get your hands dirty.
When you start out, it’s most likely that if you try to do something very grand as your first experience, it’s going to turn out awful, it’s going to be something very bad. So my recommendation for people starting out is to try to do something more limited, that turns out well. Most likely even that limited thing is going to turn out bad. The first thing I did was terrible, so I know from experience that you have to learn from the smallest things. Try to be realistic, try to embark on small projects and grow, form a group, gain more experience and grow a lot with the projects.
Papa Game Dev: To wrap up, if Carlos Bordeu from 2015 could go back to 1995, before you left school, and give advice to 17-year-old Carlos, would you tell him anything? Would you change your professional future in any way? Would you do something in that early stage that you didn’t do?
Carlos Bordeu: Well, I’d tell him all the modern video game design secrets that weren’t applied in those years yet, but that would be cheating.
I don’t know if I could convince myself, or convince one of my brothers, but I feel it was a missed opportunity that the three brothers were designers and artists. I think if at least one of the three had been a programmer, maybe we could have finalized things faster and that would have given us the kickstart to insert ourselves more into the formal industry earlier. On the other hand, maybe it would have wasted a bit of the abilities in the specific areas of design and art that we love so much, and for which we are recognized, so I don’t know if it would have been such a good recommendation, haha.
What I would have loved is to have a time machine and start about ten years earlier. Gosh, things would have been so different, ten years earlier I think we would have been millionaires, but oh well.
Papa Game Dev: Haha, in a Ferrari and helicopter.
Carlos Bordeu: That’s it, in a Ferrari and helicopter.
Papa Game Dev: Before we wrap up, is there a personal project or an ACE Team project you’d like to mention to those who will read this interview?
Carlos Bordeu: Well, I think that many people are aware that we are close to launching the company’s next game called The Deadly Tower of Monsters (video on Youtube) which is something new for us, as we have a tendency to completely change genres between each project we do. It’s going to be a really cute game, leaning more towards the humorous side and I think a lot of people will like it.
Also, to share another personal project I’m working on, still in the very early stages of development, called The Endless Cylinder. So far practically the only thing I have released is a Youtube video showing a kind of prototype of something very abstract that has not yet taken shape, but it will come. I invite you to watch both projects, and if you like them, to follow them.
Papa Game Dev: You’re awesome Carlos, many thanks for the good vibes and for being the first interviewee. Until next time!
Carlos Bordeu: Juan Pablo, many thanks to you. It’s an honor to be the first interviewee of the blog.
You can see more information about Carlos’s work and ACE Team on their official website, or on their new Steam group.
Juan Pablo makes videogames since he was 8 and he is a father since 2004. Today, he has three children and he has worked in more than 20 videogames. He got interested on how paternity and the videogame industry are related and he decided to write about it, founding "Papa Game Dev".
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